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Post by Arch Stanton on May 19, 2019 15:09:17 GMT
This particular 'honesty' Death Match was chosen after posts which were made in the 'Celebs Behaving Badly' thread. I said: 'I didn't see a problem with someone having the odd pint, especially with a meal, and then driving home afterwards, providing they weren't over the limit.' I believe there is a BIG difference between having a drink and driving, than there is being drunk and driving..... However many others it seemed didn't agree with this and believed there should be zero tolerance when it comes to having a drink and then operating a vehicle.  Now I say that's cobblers, and pretty much everyone that drives (and drinks) will at some point or other have had a drink and then driven. But maybe not, maybe I am in a smaller minority than I think? Maybe people don't do this? After all I was the only one arguing against the zero tolerance approach on the thread. So this weeks DM is simple. Black and white. An honesty Death Match. Have you ever had a drink (alcoholic), taken drugs or taken medication and then operated a vehicle? If yes I will assume you aren't a huge hypocrite and won't be voting zero tolerance. |
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Post by daz on May 19, 2019 16:33:22 GMT
A motor vehicle is a very dangerous thing and can cause carnage when something goes wrong so for me anything which can impair the senses whilst in charge of one of these things should be a huge no, whether drink or drugs, prescription or recreational should all be huge no's for anyone with a modicum of common sense. Smoking and using a mobile at the wheel should also be a huge no.
Drink and drug driving should carry an automatic 5 year ban for first offence and a resit of a driving test, a second offence 10 years and a re-sit and third time an automatic prison sentence and a lifetime driving ban.
Smokers and Mobile users should lose their license for 1 month for a first offence, no court appearance just a ban issued by the police then if a second one an immediate year and a resit and so on until repeat offenders just lose their license for good.
I would also be a supporter of including an IQ test for drivers to show they have an acceptable level of intellegence to obtain a license.
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Post by ace5150 on May 19, 2019 17:25:24 GMT
A motor vehicle is a very dangerous thing and can cause carnage when something goes wrong so for me anything which can impair the senses whilst in charge of one of these things should be a huge no, whether drink or drugs, prescription or recreational should all be huge no's for anyone with a modicum of common sense. Smoking and using a mobile at the wheel should also be a huge no. Drink and drug driving should carry an automatic 5 year ban for first offence and a resit of a driving test, a second offence 10 years and a re-sit and third time an automatic prison sentence and a lifetime driving ban. Smokers and Mobile users should lose their license for 1 month for a first offence, no court appearance just a ban issued by the police then if a second one an immediate year and a resit and so on until repeat offenders just lose their license for good. I would also be a supporter of including an IQ test for drivers to show they have an acceptable level of intellegence to obtain a license. I'm all for this, I have a zero tolerance regarding this subject. In fact, some 10 years ago, I got pulled by Warwickshire Police as I'd changed a CD whilst driving. Had a one-way conversation regarding being in total control when driving. Mrs Ace have me another lecture when she got home, another they pull you over for is programming your sat-nav whilst driving, and lighting up whilst driving. Now THAT'S sober, imagine being under the influence and thinking you're in control of a car! I refuse steadfastly to get into a car if the driver has had so much as a sniff of the barmaids apron! |
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Post by Arch Stanton on May 19, 2019 17:32:35 GMT
A motor vehicle is a very dangerous thing and can cause carnage when something goes wrong so for me anything which can impair the senses whilst in charge of one of these things should be a huge no, whether drink or drugs, prescription or recreational should all be huge no's for anyone with a modicum of common sense. Smoking and using a mobile at the wheel should also be a huge no. Drink and drug driving should carry an automatic 5 year ban for first offence and a resit of a driving test, a second offence 10 years and a re-sit and third time an automatic prison sentence and a lifetime driving ban. Smokers and Mobile users should lose their license for 1 month for a first offence, no court appearance just a ban issued by the police then if a second one an immediate year and a resit and so on until repeat offenders just lose their license for good. I would also be a supporter of including an IQ test for drivers to show they have an acceptable level of intellegence to obtain a license. How about distractions like music, other people in the car (particularly children) and animals? We sort of have the IQ test now, with the theory tests. Are you saying that the higher your IQ the better you drive? I think temperament is much more likely to determine how good you are at driving a vehicle than IQ. Tiredness? Would you also be asking for people to take tests to ensure they are still fit to drive? Things like regular medicals and reaction speeds. I reckon that after 1 bottle of lager my reaction speed, clarity of thought and overall ability to drive is better than many on the road. Particularly if we are considering the over 60s. |
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Post by Arch Stanton on May 19, 2019 17:45:56 GMT
How about people eating when they drive? Would you outlaw that? Or drinking.. Say coffee. Surely that’s no different to smoking?
Now personally I don’t smoke and drive, but I don’t really see why you feel it should be banned..?
Mobiles I get. I’ve seen first hand how people get distracted by them, but smoking? I’m not sure it would make any difference would it?
I’ve been in hundreds of journeys with smokers driving and I’ve never once witnessed a sudden decline in their ability to drive because they sparked up.
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Post by jno on May 20, 2019 3:55:21 GMT
How about people eating when they drive? Would you outlaw that? Or drinking.. Say coffee. Surely that’s no different to smoking? Now personally I don’t smoke and drive, but I don’t really see why you feel it should be banned..? All these 'How abouts?' Arch ... they are not part of the original question - any distraction is bad and people just need to behave responsibly. Alcohol and medication are clear identifiable avoids that have an extended effect. Distraction ... such posters appear all over the German Autobahn, reminding drivers not be so bl00dy selfish. ...and who's driving? Thus, the Germans haven't outlawed it but like to remind Average Joe not to do it in the interests of staying alive at high speed. Human nature will cheat and cut corners in order to save time and money. Others have little or no regard for the law. Inch equals mile. Meanwhile back to the question, zero tolerance works in other countries - stealing good ideas is not always bad, especially if the end result saves lives. Have you ever had a drink, taken drugs or taken strong medication and then operated a vehicle?It's a no from me, I could never vote yes to to that question ... surely it is condoning irresponsible (as it puts your own AND others' lives at risk) behaviour? |
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Post by daz on May 20, 2019 6:02:53 GMT
A motor vehicle is a very dangerous thing and can cause carnage when something goes wrong so for me anything which can impair the senses whilst in charge of one of these things should be a huge no, whether drink or drugs, prescription or recreational should all be huge no's for anyone with a modicum of common sense. Smoking and using a mobile at the wheel should also be a huge no. Drink and drug driving should carry an automatic 5 year ban for first offence and a resit of a driving test, a second offence 10 years and a re-sit and third time an automatic prison sentence and a lifetime driving ban. Smokers and Mobile users should lose their license for 1 month for a first offence, no court appearance just a ban issued by the police then if a second one an immediate year and a resit and so on until repeat offenders just lose their license for good. I would also be a supporter of including an IQ test for drivers to show they have an acceptable level of intellegence to obtain a license. How about distractions like music, other people in the car (particularly children) and animals? We sort of have the IQ test now, with the theory tests. Are you saying that the higher your IQ the better you drive? I think temperament is much more likely to determine how good you are at driving a vehicle than IQ. Tiredness? Would you also be asking for people to take tests to ensure they are still fit to drive? Things like regular medicals and reaction speeds. I reckon that after 1 bottle of lager my reaction speed, clarity of thought and overall ability to drive is better than many on the road. Particularly if we are considering the over 60s. Eating and drinking at the wheel is something too which shouldn't be allowed, as again either of them can easily cause a distraction to the driver and usually involved using a hand to carry out the action which may be needed to steer the wheel if something goes wrong. It only takes a slight lapse in concentration for something bad to happen. The IQ test is just a general intelligence test to ensure people have reasonable sense, not expecting them to be fellows of MENSA, but I know people with licenses who I would say are not quite right up top and their attitude to driving is quite scary, no regard for other users of the road. Policing it is another matter though and not enough Police to put these things into practice so it is never going to happen, but future technology will help, things like self driving cars and the like. |
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Post by Arch Stanton on May 20, 2019 6:36:27 GMT
How about people eating when they drive? Would you outlaw that? Or drinking.. Say coffee. Surely that’s no different to smoking? Now personally I don’t smoke and drive, but I don’t really see why you feel it should be banned..? All these 'How abouts?' Arch ... they are not part of the original question - any distraction is bad and people just need to behave responsibly. Alcohol and medication are clear identifiable avoids that have an extended effect. Distraction ... such posters appear all over the German Autobahn, reminding drivers not be so bl00dy selfish. ...and who's driving?Thus, the Germans haven't outlawed it but like to remind Average Joe not to do it in the interests of staying alive at high speed. Human nature will cheat and cut corners in order to save time and money. Others have little or no regard for the law. Inch equals mile. Meanwhile back to the question, zero tolerance works in other countries - stealing good ideas is not always bad, especially if the end result saves lives. Have you ever had a drink, taken drugs or taken strong medication and then operated a vehicle?It's a no from me, I could never vote yes to to that question ... surely it is condoning irresponsible (as it puts your own AND others' lives at risk) behaviour? All the ‘how abouts’ were brought about by Daz, suggesting mobiles and cigarettes etc are a distraction. I’m not asking for you to condone ‘irresponsible behaviour’ jno, all I’m asking for is your honesty. And if you say you have NEVER had any alcohol in your system and then operated a vehicle or NEVER taken medication, like for instance a Lemsip and then driven (I found out recently this is an absolute no no apparently - which was news to me!), then that’s fair enough, I see no hypocritical issues with you opting for zero tolerance. As I said at the start it’s an honesty DM, not a moral dilemma as to whether you think it’s big and clever or not. I thought it would be interesting to see how many do or have done Vs those who hand on heart can say categorically they never have. Hand on heart I can honestly say I have had a pint (recently at a wake) then driven home. Hand on heart I have taken medication for a bad cold and then got behind the wheel. |
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Post by chopper on May 20, 2019 19:54:06 GMT
I will have a pint of normal strength lager - possibly one & a half and drive, with no doubt & have done for as long as I have driven (30 + years)
I was pulled for speeding once, I only got a warning, the very fair policeman asked if I had a drink - I replied no, then remembered I’d had a bottle of Perroni earlier in the evening & told him, he gave me a breathalyser - but there was a zero reading, he admired my honesty, and I asked him if he suspected I’d had a drink, and he honestly replied - no. He shook my hand and that was that.
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Post by chopper on May 20, 2019 19:56:14 GMT
Why do cars have cigarette lighters & cupholders then? I always drive to work in my automatic car early in the morning, occasionally sipping on a coffee, I don’t see a problem with that either - obviously in the correct conditions
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Post by Arch Stanton on May 20, 2019 20:17:22 GMT
I will have a pint of normal strength lager - possibly one & a half and drive, with no doubt & have done for as long as I have driven (30 + years) I was pulled for speeding once, I only got a warning, the very fair policeman asked if I had a drink - I replied no, then remembered I’d had a bottle of Perroni earlier in the evening & told him, he gave me a breathalyser - but there was a zero reading, he admired my honesty, and I asked him if he suspected I’d had a drink, and he honestly replied - no. He shook my hand and that was that. Good policing. Dependent how far over the speeding limit you were.  |
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Post by chopper on May 20, 2019 21:05:24 GMT
He just seen me enter Hayle, rather too fast (the Foundry end) can’t remember if it was in a Golf GTi or the Audi A3 Sport,but neither were obviously slouches, I lived by the war memorial in Hayle then.
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Post by jno on May 21, 2019 3:45:20 GMT
Just speaking from personal experience, countryside Austrians have a very cavalier attitude to drink driving. They find alternative routes on dirt tracks through farmer's fields to avoid being breathalysed. If they kill a few chickens or a deer kills them, that is at least a form of damage limitation.
Is it the same in Cornwall? Do folks in the countryside think 'who cares?' and just jump in regardless of pint count and poodle off home through a field?
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Post by daz on May 21, 2019 6:31:05 GMT
Why do cars have cigarette lighters & cupholders then? I always drive to work in my automatic car early in the morning, occasionally sipping on a coffee, I don’t see a problem with that either - obviously in the correct conditions Nobody is saying you cannot do either in a car, but only when it is safe to do so. Speeding down a road with one hand on the wheel whilst sipping your double caramel latte and eating your crushed avocado and pulled pork seeded wrap, whilst smoking a huge Havana cigar, is not what the manufactures had in mind and in doing so your concentration ain't 100% on the road, no matter how good a driver you think you are. |
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Post by Arch Stanton on May 21, 2019 6:48:19 GMT
Just speaking from personal experience, countryside Austrians have a very cavalier attitude to drink driving. They find alternative routes on dirt tracks through farmer's fields to avoid being breathalysed. If they kill a few chickens or a deer kills them, that is at least a form of damage limitation. Is it the same in Cornwall? Do folks in the countryside think 'who cares?' and just jump in regardless of pint count and poodle off home through a field? Not that I am aware. |
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Post by daz on May 21, 2019 11:04:04 GMT
Just speaking from personal experience, countryside Austrians have a very cavalier attitude to drink driving. They find alternative routes on dirt tracks through farmer's fields to avoid being breathalysed. If they kill a few chickens or a deer kills them, that is at least a form of damage limitation. Is it the same in Cornwall? Do folks in the countryside think 'who cares?' and just jump in regardless of pint count and poodle off home through a field? Go north of Aberdeen and you will have never experienced driving like it. The more remote the location the more likely they will be drunk when driving and another strange sight up here is how many of them drive using red diesel. I think the North of Scotland as a whole must have one of the highest road accident rates in the UK, the roads are perilous and the drivers very scary. |
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Post by barrythebook on Jun 2, 2019 20:14:04 GMT
I don't agree at all with anyone driving who has enough alcohol in their system to affect their reactions and abilities behind the wheel, however.
If a person has had a few drinks of an evening and still has a modicum of alcohol in them the following morning whilst driving to work, I would feel it extremely harsh, in a zero tolerance situation, that they should lose their licence.
The general rule of drinking alcohol and how long it stays in your body is that from the time you start drinking it's one hour absorption and then your body processes (gets rid of) one unit of alcohol per hour BUT everyone is different in terms of size, weight, bodymass etc.
Obviously getting behind the wheel whilst bladdered is ridiculous and should be punished with severe penalties but if someone is stopped with a minute amount of alcohol still in their system from the night before, I'd like to think a little common sense would prevail and nothing more than some advice in the form of a warning would be given.
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Post by thecraftyleek on Jun 3, 2019 2:49:47 GMT
Confession time. I have been over the limit and driven home. This was when I lived in Kuwait.
Strange concept to get this, but as there’s no alcohol in Kuwait, there’s no breathalyser test either. And as many drivers are cr*p there anyway, the whole freeway system is like one big drink-drive festival all day long.
Would I ever do this in the U.K.? No chance! Nor Dubai, when I lived there - but I didn’t own a car there anyway. These places have rules and actually enforce them. It’s too risky. And the police do their jobs.
I probably drove home over the limit on 3-4 occasions in Kuwait in 15 years. Usually, I’d get a taxi home. It was only when I couldn’t get one and normally it was from parties that were only a few streets away from my house. It was still very bad though and I shouldn’t have done it. Regrets. I have a few.
It’s true about remote U.K. areas too as folks mention on here. As a student teacher in the 90s, this guy John gave me and my French mate Arnaud a lift home after 8-10 pints of his honeybee homebrew. It was in remote and rural Llandovery in West Wales. We even saw a local copper on the road on the way home who simply said ‘Evening John!’ and waved us on. Life in the countryside is just full of banditry. I don’t think John would get away with this today. That’s if he’s still alive.
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Post by daytona355 on Jun 3, 2019 23:20:16 GMT
I can honestly say I haven’t drunk and drove.... never really bothered me to stay on the colas and do the driving, and when I am drinking, I don’t want to have the worry of driving. That said, there should be some tolerance, and let’s face it, with the amount of painkillers I take, I technically have to be careful about driving most times anyhow
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jun 4, 2019 6:21:50 GMT
I can honestly say I haven’t drunk and drove.... never really bothered me to stay on the colas and do the driving, and when I am drinking, I don’t want to have the worry of driving. That said, there should be some tolerance, and let’s face it, with the amount of painkillers I take, I technically have to be careful about driving most times anyhow Don’t forget to vote ‘YES’ for tolerance then Daytona. I see you haven’t voted yet. |
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Post by bensonrad on Jul 9, 2019 21:08:50 GMT
Have had a pint with a meal out at a local pub, but never drunk anymore than that and driven. Interesting vote though, as my mum was down visiting recently and we went for a pub lunch and she scorned me for considering having a pint with the meal, she said if there was to be an accident, the slightest whiff of booze at the scene will likely get the blame even if it was not that persons fault. I opted for an appletizer instead. Most of the time my wife will not have a drink, so I can have a pint, going out is probably twice a year in my book these days.
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