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Post by Mr Rycott on Mar 19, 2007 14:04:58 GMT
Yet more famous faces. I noticed a young looking Gina Mckee who plays Ray's girlfriend, Joanne Turner. Little does he know that she is an under cover detective. I also noticed another familiar face, Shaun Curry. He plays Jeff, a friend of Arthur's. We get to see him at the funeral in the beginning and at the end of the episode. He played the ex-disgraced police officer, Sprott in the episode Sorry Pal, Wrong Number back in 1983.
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Post by jno on Feb 17, 2015 16:30:13 GMT
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Post by nixonuk on May 2, 2015 0:12:39 GMT
Weird episode this, lots of build up and then a real anti climax with the ending...left me shaking my head.
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Post by jno on May 2, 2015 3:22:26 GMT
This is indeed a head scratcher. It promises a lot and the more I watch it the more I think the conclusion was probably the only way out for Arthur, other than fitting Hambury up somehow.
Watching in transmission order, this one comes after 'Three Cons Make A Mountain' which again plays on Arthur's 'former villain' contacts. In this one Hambury is portrayed as Premier League villain which puts Arthur way out of his depth in terms of 'agg'.
The more I watch Ray Daley episodes the more I generally prefer the stories in series 9 & 10. Although I like series 8 I think the scripts are weaker and the real relationship between Arthur & Ray is still being established. I agree the ending leaves you a bit puzzled as what Arthur does is very much out of place.
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Post by nixonuk on May 2, 2015 14:17:46 GMT
Would have been interesting to see Ray confront the undercover copper as well.
A lot of promise but just fizzles out...
I was thinking that Tommy was getting all the stuff sent to Arthur as a diversionary tactic. So the old bill would be using all their resources on watching Daley, freeing up Hambury's team to do the 'bizo' elsewhere.
Very weak episode.
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Post by VAT on May 16, 2015 15:14:45 GMT
But a great bit though when Morley realises the heavy Old Bill are after Arthur...and he's after a Chief Super!!
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Post by daz on Jan 4, 2016 11:45:55 GMT
Watched last night and I quite liked it, thought it had a lot of good lines in it. As for the posts above on about promise then ending badly, my interpretation of it was that Arthur was being used, as Hambury was known to use small time villians for his big jobs who would "disappear" afterwards. If they did follow through with this Arthur would have been in big trouble, so it all ended nicely with Hambury "swimming with the fishes" down at Southend Pier. We all know Arthur isn't premier league, so we are left not knowing what the job was, but I agree that I think Arthur was being used to divert the police. I would have liked to have seen the scenes showing Ray being beaten up, you know something is going down in the pub and it would have been good to see it through.
I think on balance they played the comedy card more than the drama one.
Gina McKee, I think is just lovely and still looks great now. I think the change in how females are portrayed in the RD episodes compared to the Terry ones, shows a huge difference in the times.
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Post by ltd on Jan 11, 2016 19:12:21 GMT
If they did follow through with this Arthur would have been in big trouble, so it all ended nicely with Hambury "swimming with the fishes" down at Southend Pier. As I remember the thing that bothered me about that is we're told Hambury jumped into the swimming pool to save Arthur when he took a tumble during the wake. For a relatively strong swimmer to just disappear into the depths like that seems unlikely. I suppose he could have banged his head on the way down.
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Post by I used to think I was a parrot on Sept 26, 2016 21:27:17 GMT
I wonder if the writer did not know how to end the episode, so decided on the accident?
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Post by pr1 on Oct 2, 2016 22:31:05 GMT
There are elements in this story that could have made a good episode but here they just don't seem to come together. I thought this episode was strange and the tone seemed to shift with each scene. The ending is odd and kind of seems like it was decided on just before filming it.. My biggest complaint is that it drags. The fifty minutes of this episode felt twice as long.
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Post by I used to think I was a parrot on Oct 12, 2016 11:43:13 GMT
There are elements in this story that could have made a good episode but here they just don't seem to come together. I thought this episode was strange and the tone seemed to shift with each scene. The ending is odd and kind of seems like it was decided on just before filming it.. My biggest complaint is that it drags. The fifty minutes of this episode felt twice as long. Many of the Ray Daleys have a strange atmosphere - especially with the "mystery" music that is used.
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Post by jno on Oct 7, 2018 4:29:06 GMT
Press publicity shot:
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Post by pr1 on Oct 16, 2018 2:54:14 GMT
I enjoyed this much more the second time.
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Post by artyboy1973 on Nov 13, 2018 10:01:26 GMT
An okay episode but a bit contrived. Michael Gambon was good in this but for me his best role on tv was as Philip Marlow in The Singing Detective. This is another good episode if (like me) you admire women wearing nylons. Gina McKee looked great in those sheer black tights and the scene where a woman gets thrown into a swimming pool at the wake in just her black underwear stockings and suspenders was delightful titillation.
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Post by dcjones1 on Apr 7, 2019 21:33:18 GMT
There are elements in this story that could have made a good episode but here they just don't seem to come together. I thought this episode was strange and the tone seemed to shift with each scene. The ending is odd and kind of seems like it was decided on just before filming it.. My biggest complaint is that it drags. The fifty minutes of this episode felt twice as long. In a weird way the ending reminds me of North by Northwest. You think Cary Grant and his girlfriend are in mortal danger, but then the last shot is a happy ending. The penultimate scene is quite dark and we fear for Arthur as Tommy is known as a unpleasant piece of work. Arthur is uncharacteristly brave, telling Ray he will meet Tommy on his own. Morley’s reaction to Arthur attending a top gangster’s funeral is funny and probably gives us an idea of how the police see him. Maybe this explains why Rycott, Chisholm and Morley get frustrated that they can’t nail Arthur, because he is a small-time crook, who is certainly no Al Capone. Arthur only wanted his Minders to give his adversaries a ‘slap’ and is never really the aggressor. This is why Arthur is a loveable rogue, not a thug or psychopath and that’s why he was so popular.
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Post by thewoodster on Apr 8, 2019 16:18:42 GMT
There are elements in this story that could have made a good episode but here they just don't seem to come together. I thought this episode was strange and the tone seemed to shift with each scene. The ending is odd and kind of seems like it was decided on just before filming it.. My biggest complaint is that it drags. The fifty minutes of this episode felt twice as long. In a weird way the ending reminds me of North by Northwest. You think Cary Grant and his girlfriend are in mortal danger, but then the last shot is a happy ending. The penultimate scene is quite dark and we fear for Arthur as Tommy is known as a unpleasant piece of work. Arthur is uncharacteristly brave, telling Ray he will meet Tommy on his own. Morley’s reaction to Arthur attending a top gangster’s funeral is funny and probably gives us an idea of how the police see him. Maybe this explains why Rycott, Chisholm and Morley get frustrated that they can’t nail Arthur, because he is a small-time crook, who is certainly no Al Capone. Arthur only wanted his Minders to give his adversaries a ‘slap’ and is never really the aggressor. This is why Arthur is a loveable rogue, not a thug or psychopath and that’s why he was so popular. Well said dcjones1.
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Post by jjmolloy on Dec 21, 2019 0:55:38 GMT
Saw this episode when first broadcast, I really enjoyed it then, and as this was shown on ITV4 today I got the DVD out and put it on, I've largely neglected the Ray series in recent years but I enjoyed it very much. Around this time in London there were a lot of gangland/mobster funerals, which gained heavy media and police attention and it all rings very true in my opinion and the funeral was done very well. I think it's entirely plausible that the police would be filming the funeral, and Arthur not being known to them would have been of great concern. Was he a heavy duty villian who had gone under the radar before now? Even today rumours still persist if there was another mastermind behind The Great Train Robbery, so again I thought it was plausible. I really liked the parts where the equipment Tommy sent turned up at the lockup, it was all very serious kit so full marks to the property buyer. Dave Courtney, a real life London gangland villian appears in a non speaking and uncredited role, he is in the opening scene as the camera pans down the congregation in the chapel and again standing on the widow Johnson's right as Arthur pays his respects in Kensal Green. As for the ending, ... I think Arthur was in so deep over his head with no way out that Tommy's freak drowning was the only escape for him, ...so it's never been a problem for me. I also think that Tommy was genuinely involving Arthur in a heavy duty job and not using him as a diversion, as suggested above. Arthur and Tommy went back a long way and his affection and trust for Arthur were plain to see. A really good episode, David A. Yallop does the bizzo yet again.
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Post by wayne2467 on Jan 2, 2020 18:46:11 GMT
Thought I recognised Dave Courtney- he looks a bit different nowadays
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Post by jjmolloy on Jan 2, 2020 23:59:44 GMT
Thought I recognised Dave Courtney- he looks a bit different nowadays Sadly we all look a bit different nowadays!
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Post by winchesterclub on Mar 26, 2020 20:37:54 GMT
Just re watched this episode on the freemantle dvd boxset. Another good episode especially with Arthur half cut with Tommy Hambury, the cracking looking Gina Mckee as the policewomen did Ray ever clock she was a Copper ? Morley in fine form trying to get Maurice to zoom in at faces at the cemetary - strange ending for me did Arthur Push Tommy off the pier or did Tommy jump and fake his own death?
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Post by jno on Mar 26, 2020 20:58:14 GMT
Morley in fine form trying to get Maurice to zoom in at faces at the cemetary - strange ending for me did Arthur Push Tommy off the pier or did Tommy jump and fake his own death? Well... It was an accident, of course.
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Twin2
Honourable Brethren
Posts: 383
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Post by Twin2 on May 21, 2020 10:42:51 GMT
This is the first episode of the Ray years that I have watched properly all the way through (when I say watched properly, I was crocheting at the same time but that is how I watch everything. Unless I'm knitting or sewing!)
I really enjoyed it, especially the "Why are you driving down this B road?" "Arthur, it's the drive". The ending was the only thing the writers could have done to get Arthur off the hook but it was still brilliant.
Really, really enjoyed it.
I recognised Gina McKee straightaway from Lewis too
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Post by McCann on May 21, 2020 20:55:08 GMT
4/5 and only let down by the ending. Always really enjoy this episode. It is the best episode title of them all. Very droll as Chisholm would have said himself.
Morley's laugh I used to think was a little bit over the top, but it was well done here and quite comedic at the point where the heavy mob announce to him that they are after Arthur Daley, 'Mr. Big'. Also the scenes with Susan Tracey, particularly in the Winchester, are very humorous. Of course she appeared 16 years earlier in The Sweeney episode 'The Placer'. Michael Gambon is also a highlight in this. No doubt this is one of the best series 8 episodes.
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Post by joshmel on Sept 28, 2020 0:10:42 GMT
Michael Gambon steals the show here for me. Love the scene him and Arthur are getting blind drunk talking about old acquaintances.
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Post by joshmel on Sept 28, 2020 21:56:30 GMT
As has been alluded to here a great point in the Ray Daley years is the ridiculous suspense music throughout each episode. It dosent add anything to the entertainment. It maybe shows they tried to modernise into the 90s. In comparison the Terry years are so strong on plot and storyline there was no need for music. Generally rays years are not as strong so trying to change the format to suit a more modern audience was attempted.
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Post by jno on Sept 29, 2020 3:10:55 GMT
As has been alluded to here a great point in the Ray Daley years is the ridiculous suspense music throughout each episode. It dosent add anything to the entertainment. It maybe shows they tried to modernise into the 90s. In comparison the Terry years are so strong on plot and storyline there was no need for music. Generally rays years are not as strong so trying to change the format to suit a more modern audience was attempted. I have to say that at the time, watching it first time around, the incidental music didn't really feel that out of place. As we analyse it many years later and of course compared to nothing in the Dennis Waterman era, it stands out. If anything, it does differentiate the look and feel of the Ray Daley era but I don't really mind it. A bit of class sax as say, a stylish woman walks on is ok for me. A lot of the 90s was a more classy, less kitsch version of the 80s and the music highlights this I think. Let's not forget Ray was shoes, Terry was trainers (and kickers).
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Post by swainy on Sept 29, 2020 4:36:07 GMT
I hear a lot of people complaining about the music being used during the Ray years, however if you go back to series 1 that also used a lot of background music compared to the rest of the Terry years.
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Post by jno on Sept 29, 2020 4:47:10 GMT
I hear a lot of people complaining about the music being used during the Ray years, however if you go back to series 1 that also used a lot of background music compared to the rest of the Terry years. It's totally true, just think of when the bull appears or when the body gets pulled from the sea in 'You Gotta Have Friends', cue the music! www.minder.org/tunes/index.htm#incidental
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Post by jjmolloy on Sept 29, 2020 15:29:13 GMT
As has been alluded to here a great point in the Ray Daley years is the ridiculous suspense music throughout each episode. It dosent add anything to the entertainment. It maybe shows they tried to modernise into the 90s. In comparison the Terry years are so strong on plot and storyline there was no need for music. Generally rays years are not as strong so trying to change the format to suit a more modern audience was attempted. I have to say that at the time, watching it first time around, the incidental music didn't really feel that out of place. As we analyse it many years later and of course compared to nothing in the Dennis Waterman era, it stands out. If anything, it does differentiate the look and feel of the Ray Daley era but I don't really mind it. A bit of class sax as say, a stylish woman walks on is ok for me. A lot of the 90s was a more classy, less kitsch version of the 80s and the music highlights this I think. Let's not forget Ray was shoes, Terry was trainers (and kickers). Enjoyed the Ray years immensely, I was of a similiar age to Ray at the time. Didn't notice the music at the time. But then it was a time if change in the UK, wine bars etc so it was probably felt it would add to it. Just a different way of doing things. No more, no less.
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Post by joshmel on Sept 29, 2020 16:54:24 GMT
Either way still a very good episode this one. Especially the guest actors who supplement it well
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