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Post by ltd on Jan 4, 2019 19:02:40 GMT
Mel Martin was a good guest star as Caroline. Her hairstyle aged her a bit, compared to her appearance in a Bergerac episode two years earlier. Always brings a touch of class to whatever she's in, e.g. Fiona Samson in Game, Set and Match or Del Boy's stalker in Only Fools and Horses. Interesting that Joanna Lumley and Carole Royle were considered for the part. I reckon she brings a harder quality to the role than either of the other two would have managed. Something very no nonsense about her that the other two don't have (although of course Lumley is no push over in real life as the Ghurkas would no doubt be happy to testify).
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Post by VAT on Aug 24, 2019 18:33:59 GMT
A strange episode this one as I've often commented. Arthur and Terry seem to be at each throats a bit throughout this one...for example when Arthur blows up inside Albert's flat after Albert predicts his star sign..and goes outside and lets Terry know he's not welcome back in...but still I maintain I'm not sure what Arthur did wrong in this one....he's bunked Albert up somewhere nice and comes back to find Albert gone and Terry on the sofa more interested with his latest conquest...but its not the first time we see a bitter falling out between them though of course....Monday Night Fever for example...but, and I have no evidence of this of course, I feel there were clearly strains between GC and DW during this series, perhaps due to pressures in DWs personal life at the time, ....I personally think its evident also in Give Us This Day Arthur Daleys Bread... Umbrella re-watch - seems Terry in particular is on Arthurs back throughout this one - starting at the opening in the bank....seems Arthur can hardly say a word throughout the whole episode, without some remark by Terry....strange undercurrent all the way through this one...
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denzel
Honourable Brethren
Posts: 260
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Post by denzel on Aug 24, 2019 22:14:11 GMT
As others have said, an odd episode, this..but not too odd, to make you never want to re-watch it. - Leon Griffiths' final script of the entire series..says it all, really. Only it doesn't..we may never know if he ever thought of doing more, after this.
- Much was said of Arthur and Tel being at each other's throats in this one. What I had noticed seeing this, was that they started and ended off on the same argument..about Tel's not being there when he was needed. They argue in the middle, of course..but the overlying point of Arthur's in this seems to have stuck with him throughout.
- Mel Martin was cute enough in her first scene. Terry may have overreacted a bit towards her attitude, perhaps due to his trouble with Arthur being on his mind. That said, he's right..who says "they" are nicer people.
- Scooter is quite an amusing character, and one we might well have done with another appearance of, given a chance.
- The edgy nature of this Griffiths episode doesn't account for too much levity and one liners, but the best of the latter must be Tel's, "Does it say anything in there about how he's obsessed about 80 sovs?"
- Love how Arthur goes straight from a barney with Tel into "In the pink, Albert", the minute Goddard appears outside.
- Arthur's innocent, almost Bambi eyes when he asks Goddard if he trusts him, is something I've never seen Cole do in the entire Terry years..nice touch.
- Funny little moment when Goddard arrives at the new digs, and, when told about the air hostess neighbours, claims he hates aeroplanes...to which Daley simply says, "Well they don't park it outside".
- What kind of monster would do that, asks Chisholm..he's then asked if he knows a chap called Arthur Daley..he's a monster, Chisholm replies...good stuff.
- 17 years of Dave knowing Arthur Daley, at this point..just imagine the true length of his slate..mind boggling.
- The last scene is curious, and generally interesting enough. "Renegade", Arthur says, when Tel steps in. As I said before, Arthur still seems peeved about Tel's not being there, and not so concerned with the other business with Tel letting Goddard go. The scene is like some we've seen elsewhere in the Tel years, where their arguments are more like something out of Eastenders...there's at least one I can think of offhand..in the series seven finale, Tel asking him how much all their years of friendship was worth, in a packed Winchester..and yet this scene here has a sense of uniqueness to it, one of genuine grievance on Arthur's part, and possibly a final straw situation. I had felt that Arthur thought he was let down here, and it shows..he makes you believe he has a point. Tel's had the hump with Arthur many times, but this barney was very two sided..if not leaning more towards Arthur, with his bashing of Tel. Still..I reckon all the best of friends have fights now and then..this episode just shows me they cared for each other enough to do so. It would take another series though, until Tel finally had had enough of his long time pal. As noted, great acting from both GC and DW in this scene in the lockup.
- To me, this seemed to have a most bizarre ending, not just for a Minder episode, but the sixth series..and very hard to contemplate the idea of this being a finale to the show overall.
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Post by johncat on May 14, 2020 15:59:28 GMT
I enjoyed this despite Terry and Arthur's strained and strange relationship. When Arthur first meets Goddard he tells him the date and place of his birth "July 12, Fulham, 4:30 pm, it was a Wednesday", which could perhaps make it 1922, 1933 or 1939?
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Post by barrythebook on May 14, 2020 18:53:23 GMT
I enjoyed this despite Terry and Arthur's strained and strange relationship. When Arthur first meets Goddard he tells him the date and place of his birth "July 12, Fulham, 4:30 pm, it was a Wednesday", which could perhaps make it 1922, 1933 or 1939? I reckon 1933 to fit in with Arthurs history
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Post by McCann on May 14, 2020 19:19:05 GMT
Same age as Paul Newman!
Should be 1925/26 really
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Post by barrythebook on May 14, 2020 19:38:00 GMT
Same age as Paul Newman! Should be 1925/26 really You're right but that wouldn't have fitted with Arthurs national service in Malaya, it would have seen him called up in WW2. As with other aspects of the characters backgrounds, it's down to different writers I suppose.
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Post by chopper on May 14, 2020 20:07:56 GMT
He was in the final episode of series 6 and the first one of series 7. Never noted that before.
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Post by nationalpelmet on Jun 4, 2020 13:02:58 GMT
Not seen this one for a while and like most say, an edgy episode. Very believable as most people who spend so much time together, do from time to time get really fed up with each other and then differences just get magnified. You just get the feeling underneath it all, they don’t want to dissolve their relationship. I love that line “I’ve had a shooter up me hooter”. Think he used that one in ‘If money be the food of love’ 🤭
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logie
One Of Your Own
Posts: 249
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Post by logie on Jun 12, 2020 10:18:59 GMT
Interesting reading through the discussion having watched the episode last night. Everybody seems to have picked up on the troubling nature of the piece, while rating it solidly around the 3/4 star mark (3 thought it excellent, at time of writing - and nobody rated it 'poor' which surprised me; I thought there would be a couple)
I liked the episode, better than I remembered overall, and scored it 4 -with the usual caveats.
We seem almost unanimous in the troubled nature of A & T's relationship throughout this one, but I can't quite seem to figure out 'why' - not 'why' for the characters, the reasons for the fractures surfacing are obvious - but 'why' did Leon Griffiths write this one, at this time?
Let us consider that the series aired in the autumn of 1985. I can't find filming dates for the series in general (or this episode in particular) but it is reasonable to assume (weather-wise, most episodes look like they were filmed in reasonably clement conditions) these were made in the spring of '85, and the series was widely reported to be the last. So if it was to be the last we had ever seen Arfur & Tel together, it would have been a very downbeat ending on which to finish and could possibly have even tarnished the show's future legacy.
But, Leon must have known - or had a reasonable idea - that the show would continue in the form of the odd 'special', ('Orient Express' was a big production, and must have been in the pipeline at least when this was filmed) so the relationship couldn't have been severed irrevocably, there would have to be scope for reconciliation.
But, either way, the ending just didn't work for me, and i'll be popping over to the endings thread in a moment to register my unease there. It was too 'flat' for a potential finalé, but not quite 'open' enough to suggest the relationship could ever be healed (certainly, in the way we saw it just a few months later on the Orient Express)
But that was my initial thought, immediately after viewing; Arthur's plaintive cries to Terry of "Don't you want your half of this?" - a fee he had just dismissed as not worth getting out of bed for - seemed almost pathetic. I found it difficult to watch Arthur so obviously exposed, so stripped of all that we expect from him - the patter, the confidence - I found it almost painful.
But thinking on it this morning, and reading through the comments, I see it in a slightly different light; Arthur, knowing he is (even if only partly) in the wrong and desperate to offer an olive branch, but such is the façade he has built up through the years he just doesn't know how to say "sorry" and re-build the relationship.
This is Arthur, similar to DelBoy in OFAH episode 'Strained Relations" (just after Grandad's funeral), stripped bare. At least DelBoy is able to articulate his shortcomings :
"That's me, always ducking and diving. Nothing ever upsets DelBoy. I've always played the tough guy, Rodney; I didn't want to - but I had to. And I've played it for so long now, I don't know how to be anything else".
They've been to a funeral, emotions are running high. You can say things, admit to things, that you would normally struggle to get out. Arthur doesn't have that luxury, not in an everyday situation in the lockup, so all he can resort to is 'Don't you want your half of this?" - in its own way, its almost as poignant as Del's speech. Less is more, as it were.
But, again, why do that last? Why not put the episode earlier in the series, when there is time to build the relationship up again? To leave us on that, possibly forever - but at least until the Orient Express special - just doesn't seem right somehow.
Anyhow, I've gone on far longer than intended - I'll just point out the good points of the episode before bringing this post to an end (thank God, I hear you cry)
Ronald Fraser - superb. Lovely little role for him executed to perfection. Kenneth Cope - the comic relief of the episode, buzzing here there and everywhere like a bee with ADHD, almost as if he's having a private battle with Fraser here to see who can steal the episode (though, sadly, no scenes together) Chisholm, magnificent as ever (though agreed Jones' presence was nothing more than 'token') particularly at the end when taking his leave from Terry and Caroline, and the sofa
Some nice lines too, in particular the Raich Cart(i)er reference, and dave being talked round by Arthur re : the watch "I think I'm going to ban that Scooter", as Arthur puffs out a huge sigh of relief "Well, thank God I was able to put your mind at rest" - THAT's the Arthur we know and ... er ... respect?
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Post by bigaitch on May 19, 2021 16:31:40 GMT
I thought this episode was okay and enjoyed the performances of Ronald Fraser and Mel Martin. I can’t see what is brought to the episode by Arthur being held up at the start. It bears no relevance to the actual main story, that is the recluse that is Goddard. Chisholm is excellent in this and Dave is, well, he is just Dave isn’t he ? Quite enjoyable but not one of the stand outs for me. However, I think the fall out between AD and TM gives a new dimension to the series and shows the versatility of the script writers, the parts and the actors.
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Post by barrythebook on Apr 13, 2022 21:02:14 GMT
When Arthur walks out of the bank, just before he gets held-up, he reminded me of 'Flash Harry'. The slight swagger in his walk, his facial expression and the general look of him walking along with a briefcase in his hand made me think of GC's St Trinian days. Watch it and whistle the 'Flash Harry' tune to yourself, i think you'll see what I mean
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Post by jjmolloy on Apr 14, 2022 14:54:55 GMT
Crucially in this 1985 episode we see the last of Tel at his leanest and fittest, when the show proper resumes with Sorry Lorry Morrie it's shot in mid 1988 and we see him with more weight on and at this stage not far off needing a minder himself. With the break up of Arthur and Terry at the end of Goddard the show definitely feels like it's at a natural end here, with Arthur calling rather pathetically after Tel, who pauses briefly, looks over his shoulder with contempt then turns his back on Arthur and walks on.
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Post by euston1971 on May 5, 2022 17:30:49 GMT
Mark Lawson did an obituary in - I think - The Guardian that this would be the last episode and it was generally considered that would be it. So why wasn't it?
The show was still very successful in the ratings and 'The Network' i.e ITV, would have been wanting another series from Thames. Had it been an Euston decision alone - which it appears it was with The Sweeney - it have gone no further. It fact, it may have been canned earlier, as Euston's Linda Agran was quoted as saying that after 'Series 3, we had used up all the best scripts and actors, but Thames would not let it die.' Ironic as Thames Management were less than keen in the early days to continue the show after indifferent ratings.
While Dennis was concerned about the quality of the scripts, he was still onboard. Cole would have played the role for as long as he was able to and often cited that the show came to an end because Thames lost their franchise, but the final series was commissioned by Central and reality was that ITV did not want another and left Euston with no further projects.
In hindsight, Series 6 should have been a proper run of a full season of episodes and that should have been that, especially as Dennis was out of shape by S7 and was more of a go-fer than a Min-der. Quite why they only made 6 episodes I don't know, but maybe it was getting very expensive to make? Euston Films were known for being very economic - the early Sweeney episodes for done for £35K - but Minder was looking a bit top heavy in production and with guest starts coming in increasing the overall costs.
This wasn't Leon's greatest episode, but it was his baby and for that, we will always be grateful.
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Post by AlanH on May 20, 2022 22:59:23 GMT
Watched this episode tonight some time after having watched the earlier episodes in this series. Because of this I don't think I picked up on the sudden upping of the antagonism between Arthur and Terry, which others in this thread have remarked upon.
I didn't find it unpleasant, just well played, good character drama, and the episode really did have an end-of-season cliffhanger feel to its climax; I was previously unaware that there was some suggestion that this might actually have been the last episode (though with Minder on the Orient Express transmitted only a couple of months later it seems this wasn't ever going to be entirely final!).
The mugging Arthur experiences at the start of the episode was something I thought would be followed up later in the episode but in retrospect I now realise it was there simply to give Arthur a reason to feel let down by Terry (by his not being there to mind him). I also felt that the character of Scooter (Kenneth Cope) was going to have more relevance to the overall narrative but he ends up being on its periphery throughout really. A shame as Kenneth Cope is always good value (and was in what little he had to do here).
On the other hand there's a lovely character role for the legendary Ronald Fraser.
There are a few good gags in there, too, and I loved the business with the Cartier watch and Arthur's twisting of things so that Dave ends up believing he's got the real McCoy and will barr Scooter for trying to convince him it's a ringer. It also taught me a bit of cockney rhyming slang as I hadn't picked up on 'kettle' being rhyming slang for a watch before (despite working in the East End for 25 years!) - 'kettle and hob': fob watch.
Overall, an enjoyable episode and a memorable one. A Good from me.
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Post by ltd on May 25, 2022 10:36:25 GMT
In Anthony Masters' rather shoddy novelisation of Leon Griffiths script there's a running joke that whenever Arthur mentions he's been mugged, someone asks "Was he black?" I can see why that was excised from the final filmed version - a bit near the knuckle even back in the mid-80s.
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manta
On Wages
What’s French for en-suite?
Posts: 73
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Post by manta on Jan 6, 2023 21:38:32 GMT
I have to say I felt this was a bit flat. Maybe I’m watching them too close together (one a day). Story all flowed fine and loved the way Arthur pulled the Cartier watch stroke on poor old Dave but overall it was all just ambling along. I appreciate the sensitive stuff - but I think I’m realising that’s not what I’m watching it for…….
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Post by kelotoph on Mar 28, 2024 13:49:34 GMT
This episode, whilst very competently acted, was probably my second least favourite in the series ("Give us this Day....." being my least favourite). The script was darker than previous episodes and the plot was fairly thin, but at least that meant some padding in the form of Kennth Cope. Puzzled as to where Chisholm got the stolen worsted cloth - was it confiscated from Scooter? Didn't seem very plausible to me. The tense atmosphere between Arthur and Terry throughout the episode definitely took the edge off things, and there was even tension between Dave and Arthur, albeit resolved in the end. I found the scene between Terry and Goddard, where Goddard was talking about his life, to be a bit tedious. The ending appeared to be a rather downbeat final sign-off, but is unlikely to have been written with that in mind. However, the whole episode has a bit of an 'end of an era' feel about it.
Some nice glamour in the form of Mel Martin as Caroline and Hilary Gish as the bank cashier (I only found out today that she's Jack Whitehall's mother).
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