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Post by Zimbo on Jan 12, 2017 14:05:13 GMT
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Post by jno on Jan 12, 2017 14:40:09 GMT
Very sad - the nasty British press roasted him.
I think anyone who takes on the England job is on a hiding to nothing. With so many passionate supporters, a lot of whom believing they are the authority on football and could do a better job, he was brave just to take it on I thought.
As you say Zimbo, he did a superb job with Watford and should be remembered as a very good football manager.
RIP Graham.
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Deleted
Deus est regit qui omnia.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 15:25:01 GMT
Very sad news. Came across as a decent chap.
RIP
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Post by flyingsquad on Jan 12, 2017 15:55:37 GMT
I didn't enjoy his time as England manager but he was a good club manager and a decent man.
RIP Graham
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Post by minderfan84 on Jan 12, 2017 17:53:31 GMT
Rip always came across as a decent person I remember him mainly from the 90s managing England and Villa but i heard his Watford side in the 80s where half decent too
Taylor led Watford from the Football League Fourth Division to the First Division in only five years.
that is some achievement
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Post by daz on Jan 12, 2017 18:26:14 GMT
A real shame, came across as a decent kind of guy and his achievements at Watford were pretty stunning, also did well with Villa for a spell as well.
RIP
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jan 12, 2017 19:06:40 GMT
Being England manager killed his career.
No one took him seriously after that.
I wonder how many years the press took off his life?
RIP GT.
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Post by ltd on Jan 12, 2017 19:22:30 GMT
Being England manager killed his career. No one took him seriously after that. I thought he had a good second spell with Watford after the England debacle? As jno says England manager is something of a poisoned chalice, and he was treated very shabbily by the press. Didn't deserve the turnip moniker. When he was being interviewed or doing a bit of punditry he always came across as an intelligent and decent chap. |
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jan 12, 2017 20:51:43 GMT
Being England manager killed his career. No one took him seriously after that. I thought he had a good second spell with Watford after the England debacle? You could be right.. But being welcomed back to some pie and pea team you had a good spell with once upon a time is one thing, moving on to other big clubs and being considered a big club manager after his 'disastrous' England stint is another. I don't mean to diss Watford by the way if there's any fans out there. Just stating facts. |
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Post by Portland Road on Jan 15, 2017 9:59:28 GMT
IIRC his appointment as England manager caused quite a stir. People were saying things like "what has he won....?"
I think the public was used to long-serving older men at the helm of the national team, that harked back to the 'postwar Stanley Matthews era'. Alf Ramsey, Don Revie, Ron Greenwood and Bobby Robson were all such be-suited statesmen. Whereas Graham Taylor was a much younger 'tracksuit manager', bringing success to lower division clubs with a 'route one', long-ball style.
With such misgivings from the start of his appointment, they did not go away when he had bad results as in Euro 92, and failing to qualify for the 1994 World Cup. That said, he was badly treated by the tabloids, the 'turnip' imagery being harsh.
His tenure also coincided with the start of the Premier League, whose stature became bigger than the national team. As such, it became regular for the England manager to change, to the extent where it was just another job in football, and lost its prestige.
RIP Graham Taylor. He always came across as genuine.
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jan 15, 2017 11:50:02 GMT
RIP Graham Taylor. He always came across as genuine. Indeed. I saw a documentary on Taylor.. Which may have been that famous 'Do I not like that..' documentary that was big news in the 90s, or it may not and it might have been a different one. Either way this documentary I watched had me thinking at the time, 'Actually, yes he was the 'best' candidate for the job' and it made me feel a little sorry and disappointed for him. Prior to watching this, I didn't really know much about him (I had only really started to properly follow football around this time) and because I watched the matches and saw the results, I just heard what the people around me said, alongside the opinions that the newspapers had and because of that I thought he was a joke. As I said in my earlier post, after that his career in management was never the same. Like the original 'Wally With The Brolly' or something. ....... Interestingly, because this thread has encouraged me to check the stats, Taylor's win ratio for England was 47.4%. Re: managers either side of him.. Bobby Robson's was 49.5% - another manager the press vilified before Italy '90. Terry Venables' was 47.8% - and as an England fan we all loved El Tel, right? His stint with England was Taylor's best win ratio for any of his clubs. His 'most remembered, successful term' with Watford only 46.30%. I know stats aren't everything but it just goes to show what the press can do to someone's career... |
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Post by I used to think I was a parrot on Jan 20, 2017 22:20:47 GMT
His time at England was a bit strange. He took over after Italy 1990, and dropped many of the players for the Euro 1992 qualifiers. He kept changing the team and formation making odd choices such as Andy Sinton, Geoff Thomas etc. England qualified for Euro 92 in Sweden, which in those days had eight teams in the finals. He then played a strange team and England got tuned over by the Swedes and got knocked out, so were perhaps unlucky.
He was unlucky during the 1994 world cup qualifiers with some close losses and draws. England lost out to Norway and Netherlands. I remember Norway getting a draw with England at Wembley with a flukey long range shot. Netherland got a late equaliser at Wembley too. Then England lost 2-0 in Norway after he played wing backs. England did not qualify, and he got the sack.
All the England managers are hated in the end, even though England do not do much - only reaching the semi-finals in 90 and 94.
I was not a fan of his at the time, but afterwards liked his punditry and though he was a nice chap.
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Post by ltd on Jan 20, 2017 22:27:13 GMT
I remember Mark Radcliffe used to do a sketch on his late night radio programme called the adventures of Graham, Phil and Laurie. Obviously based on the documentary Arch mentions above, it consisted of Graham and Phil shouting bleeped out expletives at each other while Laurie interjected occasionally saying "Why aye." I'm ashamed to say I found it funny at the time, but it was obviously feeding off the tabloid image of Graham Taylor and wasn't remotely fair to the man, or his colleagues probably.
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Post by dscarter1975 on Jan 21, 2017 1:04:32 GMT
I remember watching that Channel 4 documentary with my brother and at the time was shocked to hear him swear like how's your father as he kept trying to push his team to win. I remember initially, after he took over as England manager, they had a very impressive run of results and I think the fans warmed to him. I reckon he got the job because of his record with Watford and helping Villa finish 2nd to Liverpool in 1990. He did make some odd choices and got a slagging for taking off Gary Lineker in that match against Sweden in Euro '92. But he was still a nice bloke and very likeable.
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jan 21, 2017 10:34:00 GMT
His time at England was a bit strange. He took over after Italy 1990, and dropped many of the players for the Euro 1992 qualifiers. He kept changing the team and formation making odd choices such as Andy Sinton, Geoff Thomas etc. England qualified for Euro 92 in Sweden, which in those days had eight teams in the finals. He then played a strange team and England got tuned over by the Swedes and got knocked out, so were perhaps unlucky. He was unlucky during the 1994 world cup qualifiers with some close losses and draws. England lost out to Norway and Netherlands. I remember Norway getting a draw with England at Wembley with a flukey long range shot. Netherland got a late equaliser at Wembley too. Then England lost 2-0 in Norway after he played wing backs. England did not qualify, and he got the sack. All the England managers are hated in the end, even though England do not do much - only reaching the semi-finals in 90 and 94. I was not a fan of his at the time, but afterwards liked his punditry and though he was a nice chap. Sinton was a good player. But he's ex-Wednesday so I'm biased and would probably tell you Carlton Palmer was good too.  I also think that when we look at Sweden, Norway and Holland, all three of them were bloomin good teams at the time and with typical English arrogance we thought we should beat them, well certainly Sweden and Norway, like it was our God given right. Bearing in mind Sweden were flippin unlucky not to win that World Cup in 1994 and were a deuced good side in Euro '92 as well. Thomas Brolin was at his peak then.. The WC could have gone their way. Only narrowly losing to Brazil 1-0 in the semi, Sweden finished third - hammering a handy side in Bulgaria 4-0 in the 3rd place playoff. Norway getting knocked out in the group stages on goal difference - they were in Ireland's group as I recall with Italy & Mexico Norway were a good side though. You look at both their line ups now and think, jeez. |
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jan 21, 2017 10:42:45 GMT
He did make some odd choices and got a slagging for taking off Gary Lineker in that match against Sweden in Euro '92. But he was still a nice bloke and very likeable. Lineker was rubbish in that match. I'm not surprised he took him off. I think he was right to. Lineker was annoyed because it was his last game for England. Tough! He should have played better. |
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Post by Zimbo on Jan 21, 2017 11:49:34 GMT
He did make some odd choices and got a slagging for taking off Gary Lineker in that match against Sweden in Euro '92. But he was still a nice bloke and very likeable. Lineker was rubbish in that match. I'm not surprised he took him off. I think he was right to. Lineker was annoyed because it was his last game for England. Tough! He should have played better. I can't remember the game, but Lineker hadn't scored for a while as he was closing in on Bobby Charlton's goal scoring record (48 to 49) "and that included a missed penalty in one of the friendlies before (v Brazil?). It was noted that loathsome Lineker didn't do MOTD on the night when all the tributes were paid to Taylor. Bitter to55er! |
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Post by Arch Stanton on Jan 21, 2017 11:54:29 GMT
Lineker was rubbish in that match. I'm not surprised he took him off. I think he was right to. Lineker was annoyed because it was his last game for England. Tough! He should have played better. I can't remember the game, but Lineker hadn't scored for a while as he was closing in on Bobby Charlton's goal scoring record (48 to 49) "and that included a missed penalty in one of the friendlies before (v Brazil?). It was noted that loathsome Lineker didn't do MOTD on the night when all the tributes were paid to Taylor. Bitter to55er! There may have been other reasons for the lack of Lineker on MotD, but if that is the case.... You're spot on Zimbo, that is bitter |
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Post by Zimbo on Jan 21, 2017 15:04:31 GMT
I can't remember the game, but Lineker hadn't scored for a while as he was closing in on Bobby Charlton's goal scoring record (48 to 49) "and that included a missed penalty in one of the friendlies before (v Brazil?). It was noted that loathsome Lineker didn't do MOTD on the night when all the tributes were paid to Taylor. Bitter to55er! There may have been other reasons for the lack of Lineker on MotD, but if that is the case.... You're spot on Zimbo, that is bitter It could be coincidence but having seen Lineker sniping about it over the years. I wouldn't be surprised if the "humanitarian" booked a last minute Barbados holiday. |
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Post by Portland Road on Jan 23, 2017 10:23:21 GMT
If I recall correct, Lineker had announced that he was 'retiring from the national team' after the Euro 92 tournament.
Surely it was up to the manager to decide whether Lineker should play, or not, for England? Or at least, such an announcement should have been made after the tournament, with consent by Taylor.
Lineker had probably jumped the gun and it resulted in his substitution, and ongoing tension, with the manager.
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Post by thewoodster on Oct 15, 2018 9:49:02 GMT
RIP graham Taylor.
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